Matt Abrahams is a lecturer at Stanford Graduate School of Business, host of the podcast Think Fast, Talk Smart, and author of the book of the same name. This conversation with the Tiger Sisters podcast covers small talk, spontaneous speaking, apologies, networking, and virtual presence.

What Makes Someone Easy to Talk To?

Tiger Sisters: What actually makes someone easy to talk to — confidence, curiosity, charisma?

Matt: I think it’s all those C’s. Confidence in your presence, curiosity as a lead-in to most communication, and charisma — which is hard to define but easy to feel. It’s about having energy, presence, and genuine interest in the other person.

And it also means not being distracted. Leaning in physically. So much goes into what makes somebody interesting to talk to. I challenge everyone: pay attention to the people you actually want to talk to. What are they doing? From that, you can build those behaviors into your own communication — not by copying, but by adapting.

Tiger Sisters: Why do some people make you feel instantly safe, while others — even if they’re very nice — feel intimidating?

Matt: Before a conversation even starts, we’re reading nonverbal cues. If you’re open, leaning forward, making eye contact, those are signals that say I’m here for you. Crossed arms, looking away, physical distance — all of those send the opposite message.

In academic terms, this is called immediacy — being immediately present with someone. It’s what makes you inviting.

At Stanford’s Business School, I digitally record students in different communication situations — I tell them it’s like going to the dentist. Nobody likes going, but they’re really glad they’ve been. Watching yourself makes you aware of what you do with your body. And once you’re aware, you can change it.

The Perception Gap

The biggest thing students discover when they watch themselves back is what I call the perception gap: almost everyone comes back and says, “I appeared more confident than I felt.”

That’s because we have access to all our internal noise — the pounding heart, the shaking knees — that nobody else can see. Our internal feelings aren’t always translated into what we actually do.

Here’s how I have students watch themselves: first, watch without sound (just nonverbal presence). Then listen without watching (just the voice). Then watch both together. Each pass gives you different insight. It’s painful, but the learning is transformational.

The Five Stories Everyone Should Have Ready

Leaders are often put on the spot — in job interviews, at networking dinners, before a difficult conversation. The solution is to stockpile stories in advance so you’re never reaching into an empty drawer.

From the book The Pin Drop Principle, here are five stories everyone in business should be able to tell:

  1. The value story — a value you hold and why it matters to you
  2. Pie in the face — a mistake you made, but from which you learned something
  3. The origin story — something fundamental to who you are and how it developed
  4. The crucible story — when you were really tested and had to respond
  5. The solution story — when you solved a problem or captured an opportunity

These aren’t meant to be memorized and inserted on cue. They’re there to give you a place of comfort to go to when you need it. You can prepare to be spontaneous — the way an athlete does drills so they can respond freely in the moment. When you’re in the moment, you don’t have to be in your head. You just pull one of these in and connect.

Small Talk: The Most Underrated Skill

Tiger Sisters: Can you give us insight into small talk? It can feel so uncomfortable.

Matt: The way we frame small talk is part of the problem. Many of us see it as a necessary evil — a punishment for being around people in an elevator or at a social event.

In fact, big things happen in small talk. Think about your friendship group — the real ones you actually hang out with. My hunch is at least one of those people you met through some kind of small talk. We connect, we learn to collaborate, we initiate deeper communication through small talk. We need to rebrand it.

How to start: The single best way is inquiry or observation. You can ask, “What did you think about that keynote?” Or make a simple observation. I was at a banquet buffet next to a stranger and noticed everyone was wearing different shades of blue — totally coincidental. I turned to him and said, “I must have missed the memo on the blue outfit.” He laughed, we talked, we exchanged LinkedIn information, and we’ve been friends ever since.

How to approach it: Most of us approach small talk thinking we have to be interesting. The key insight — from professional matchmaker and academic Rachel Greenwald — is that it’s about being interested, not interesting. Think of it like hacky sack: the goal isn’t to ace the ball over the net. The goal is just to keep the bag in the air.

How to exit: Most of us rely on biology — “I’m hungry,” “I have to use the bathroom” — and that can backfire. (I once told someone I had to run to the bathroom, and he said, “Me too,” and we had another 20-minute conversation in a very awkward environment.)

Rachel calls the better approach the white flag — not for surrender, but like the white flag in an auto race that signals the last lap. You say: “This has been a great conversation. In a few minutes, I’m going to go say hello to someone over there — but before I leave, I have one more question.” You signal the ending before it happens, come back for one final lap, and then leave gracefully. There’s no awkward cold stop.

Why Overthinking Kills Connection

Tiger Sisters: How does overthinking how you’re coming across actually hurt connection?

Matt: I’m not saying don’t evaluate yourself — bad things happen when you have no filter. But many of us run around with that volume turned up to 11, and that gets in the way.

Your brain is like a computer. A computer’s CPU has only limited cognitive bandwidth. When I’m judging and evaluating at an extreme, I’m taxing that bandwidth — and that means I can’t connect, adapt, and adjust.

This is why memorizing is so bad. When you memorize, you’ve created “the right way to say it” — and then while you’re speaking, you’re constantly comparing what you’re saying to what you planned to say. That comparison eats your bandwidth.

So I tell my students: it’s about connection, not perfection. Be present and there, even if it doesn’t come out exactly right. You’re better off connected than perfect.

The game I use to demonstrate this is called Shout the Wrong Name. For 15 seconds, point at things in the room and call them anything but what they are. (Point at the ceiling — say “yellow dove.”) It’s harder than it sounds. One student froze pointing at a chair. I asked what was happening. He said, “I’m not being wrong enough — a cat has four legs, and a chair has four legs, so calling it a cat isn’t wrong enough.”

That’s exactly what we all do in conversations — judging every option before it leaves our mouths. The game makes that visible, and then we can work on it.

The first day of my class, I tell students: “The goal of this course is to maximize your mediocrity.” MBA students don’t love hearing that. But once you understand cognitive bandwidth, you understand: when you focus on just doing it instead of doing it perfectly, you actually do it better.

The What, So What, Now What Framework

Most of our communication is spontaneous — not the polished presentations with slide decks and agendas. Somebody asks you a question in a meeting, you’re asked for feedback, you make a mistake and have to respond in the moment.

The key to getting through these moments is to have a structure. My favorite is three simple questions:

  • What — what is the information?
  • So what — why does it matter?
  • Now what — what comes next?

Example: your boss turns to you and says, “Give me an update on that project.”

  • What: here’s where we are.
  • So what: here’s why it matters for our goals.
  • Now what: here’s what comes next.

I call this the Swiss Army knife of communication structures. You can use it to answer questions, give feedback, even deliver an apology. Once you’ve practiced it — and I encourage everyone listening to do this right now — at the end of this episode, ask yourself: What’s one thing I learned? Why is it important to me? How can I use it? By doing that, you’re laying down neural pathways so the structure becomes instinctive.

How to Apologize Well

A good apology follows the same structure but has two essential qualities:

First, apologize for the behavior, not how the other person felt. “I’m sorry I made you upset” is not an apology. “I’m sorry I interrupted you” is.

Second, be specific about what you’ll do differently. “I’m sorry I interrupted you. That was disrespectful. In our next meeting, I’ll make sure to paraphrase what you say before I add my contribution.”

Now we can talk about the remedy — and that conversation actually deepens the relationship. Apologies are free. And a good apology can build trust and advance a relationship in ways that agreement alone cannot.

Networking with Intention

Networking and small talk are related, but networking requires a bit more strategy.

Have a goal with three parts: What information do I want to share and receive? How do I want the other person to feel? What specific outcome am I looking for — a LinkedIn connection, a reference, a follow-up?

Do your reconnaissance. Before networking events, look people up. What are their backgrounds? What issues could they help you with? Read what they’ve written. Listen to podcasts they’ve been on. Have that in the back of your mind — but when you’re in the room, be fully present. Don’t come in hot with your agenda right away. Connect first.

Follow up. After the event, thank people. Express gratitude. It feels awkward, but it makes you memorable. The people who stick out are the gracious ones — the ones who followed up, who connected what you’ve done to what they’re asking for.

And remember: it’s not just about what you can get. What value can you offer the other person? Being other-focused is critical in all communication. The goal isn’t just to get information out — it’s to make sure the other person actually receives something.

Virtual Communication

Three things for showing up well on video calls:

  1. Fill half the screen with your body. Most people sit too far away and look like a constellation in the sky. Here’s a simple hack: before you click join, put four fingers on top of your head. If there’s four fingers of space between your head and the top of the frame, you’re sitting too far back. Scoot in.

  2. Raise your camera. When a laptop sits flat on the desk, the angle looks up at you. Nobody looks good from that angle, and it signals that you’re looking down, not at the person you’re speaking to. Raise it up so you can look straight into the lens — that signals presence and attention.

  3. Get good lighting. And about backgrounds: the blurry background actually makes people think you’re hiding something. Use an image, or tidy up what’s behind you.

The content also has to be salient — completely relevant to the other person. Attention is the most precious commodity we have today. If you don’t make it relevant, you’ve already lost your audience, camera or not.

Matt’s book is Think Faster, Talk Smarter. His podcast of the same name is at thinkfastertalksmarter.com.